Canadian Assault Interview

MC: Tell my readers a bit about yourself and what you have been up to the past couple years?

DR: Well I am a late 30s metalhead that has been toiling in the UG scene for the last 20 years or so. Before that I was just your average long haired young guy into all the more mainstream metal bands in the mid 80s like Venom, Maiden, Priest, Savatage, Slayer, Hellhammer etc… These days I am a family man with two kids living up in the mountains of Northeastern PA. I still run my longtime zine Canadian Assault, but I have a feeling you will be asking me more about that in the following questions. So I will leave it at that.

MC: I know you have been in the US for at least a few years now. What is your lovely opinion of the states and PA in general?

DR: Yeah more than a few years now. In fact I seem to remember a certain Mr. Forbes coming over to my house a time or two around 1999 or so. There are great things and not so great things about the US and Canada. But I love both for different reasons. When I first moved here I had only ever lived in little small country towns in Canada. So I wanted to give the big city life a try and lived in Philadelphia for a little over 4 years. Which was more than long enough for me to realize the city is a great place to visit, but not the place for me to live. So I retreated into the Pennsylvania countryside where I am more comfortable. First I lived at the foot of the Blue Mountain range (which turns into the Pocono mountains further down) and later moved on to the mountain itself. I have mountain peaks on both sides of the house and wildlife all over the place. I love it. I think for the most part I enjoy the laid back nice people out in the countryside rather than the more self-absorbed, rush, rush, rush people in the city. Not that I interact a lot either way. I am a bit of a hermit and not that social at times. The crime and filth in Philly are things I do not miss as well.

MC: Were you always into music at a young age? What were some of the 1st musical styles that you heard if you can remember?

DR: Yeah I got into music pretty damn young. I had an older sister and when I was probably 6 or 7 years old. I would listen to her vinyl's of bands like Canadian rock band Trooper (Hotshots ’79 greatest hits record), Queen, Steve Miller Band (Joker album), Nazareth, Headpins (Turn It Loud), Led Zeppelin etc… Then over the next few years I struck out on my own with Twisted Sister, Kick Axe (Vices album), AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Savatage (Sirens & Dungeons Are Calling rule!) and Iron Maiden. Then I got my hands on a Hellhammer tape and more importantly “Black Metal” from Venom and I completely fucking possessed and obsessed. You can imagine from that point (early to mid 80s time period) I quickly got into Sodom, Kreator, Exodus, Infernal Majesty, Slayer, Razor. My infatuation with death metal followed in the late 80s/early 90s.

MC: When did you first discover rock n roll and metal music in general and what were you thoughts on it when you first heard this style of music?

DR: I guess I kind of got ahead of myself in the last question and answered most of this one already. But when I got into hard rock and heavy metal it just felt right man. I loved the speed and pounding drums and air raid siren vocalists. I loved the imagery and attitude of it all. I immediately started to plaster my walls with full page pics ripped out of magazines and got to work trying to grow my hair long. By the end of my 5th grade year I was already a long haired hippy metalhead looking guy and even work spike wrist bands to school etc… Yeah I look back at those times in the early to mid and even late 80s with a lot of nostalgia. It was great time for metal music and everything seemed so new. You can ask anyone who knew me or went to school with me growing up. I was the “the metalhead” in school and clearly obsessed with it. From my long hair to wearing a metal shirts to school every day to band logos and metal sayings / lyrics drawn in pen on my binders and lockers. Good times.

MC: Do you remember the 1st record or cassette that you brought and were you brought it at?

DR: Damn I am not sure. I mean I had a few albums dubbed from friends. But I think I saved up money; we lived in a tiny town where you could not really buy any albums. So I saved up that money (allowance) for a while and went into a small city called Red Deer in Alberta. I think I actually bought a few albums. The first 3 that come to mind are Iron Maiden - Killers, AC/DC - Flick of The Switch, and Venom - Black Metal stick out in my mind as the first albums I bought for myself. Metallica – Kill ‘Em All was an early on purchase as well. I just bought them at a record store in a mall in the city. So no cool stories there…

MC: What was the 1st band that you really became a fan of and are you still a fan of that band today?

DR: It is hard to pin it down to just one. But I think the first where I was really, really into them was probably Iron Maiden. I am still into them today absolutely. I actually think the Dance of Death released back in 2003 is probably their best since Seventh Son of A Seventh Son. They kind of lost the plot for me for a while after that record. Then again I was really into death metal and then the second wave of black metal around that time. So that probably had a little to do with it. I had a special connection with Venom early on and that never went away either. My mother lost her mind when I was in the 4 or 5th grade she found a Venom cassette inlay on my floor and read the lyrical quote inside in big bold lettering (haha):
We drink the vomit of the priests
Make love with the dying whore
We suck the blood of the beast
And hold the key to deaths door

MC: What was the 1st underground metal concert that you saw and did you walk out of the show saying "holy shit" so to speak?

DR: Ha ha. Yeah well where I lived there really were none to speak of unfortunately. I was known as the metalhead guy for a reason. Because there was hardly anyone else in our isolated little mountain town or in the surrounding farms and tiny villages that were into metal. But I made a trip once again to the small city of Red Deer late in my teens to go to a rare UG metal show. There was a hardcore band I think their name was Grandpa’s Magic Pinecone (if anyone remembers those cheesy Pepsi or Coke commercials from back in the day that is where they got their name). Then there was a band named Tank Hog that were a hard rock kind of band, had a few good tunes but kinda commercial sounding. Then there was a really good demo band named Nekroscope that played some cool dark thrash metal. I still listen to their demo to this day. They put on a great show and got a pit going and everything. That was at least a minor holy shit moment to get caught up in. I think I was just relieved I have finally gotten to go to an UG show and that there was one to go to. Some years later when I started driving I would drive the 2 hour trip up to Edmonton and then I got to go to some great UG shows and the Canadian band Disciples Of Power made me go holy shit a lot of times. I even helped Cryptopsy get some of their gigs lined up for their first Canadian tour before they were signed to a label. They were amazing live and back then the singer Lord Worm used to eat huge earthworms and shit through out the set that he pulled out of piles of dirt in this container.

MC: Did you ever tape trade and if you did, did you do it with a lot of people?

DR:Yes I was an avid tape trader for years. It was a rush back then going to the post box on the corner and pulling out a new package from one of my traders. “Oh man the demos from those new bands Gorguts and Graveland you recorded me are awesome brother!” in the return letter haha. It was fun making tapes with stuff they requested as well knowing how much they will like what you are sending. At one point yes I did have a lot of tape traders. As can be expected I had a handful in Canada. But I also had a few in the US (even Hawaii) and some scattered overseas in places like France, Sweden, Finland, Malaysia and more. I had a couple that people might recognize (before they were known in the UG) like Cyril from a number of French bands like Matanboukos, Chemin De Haine, Dark Sanctuary, Osculum Infame etc… and also Ryan Forster from Conqueror, Revenge, Godless North, Blasphemy.

MC: When did you start to check out fanzines and what were some of the first ones you read?

DR: I am not sure what my first fanzine was. I think I got some flyers with my first couple demo tapes I ordered and ordered every fanzine in there at one time for my first zine order ha ha! Once I realized there was such a thing (see above location I grew up) I wanted every one I could get my hands on. But some early on ones would be Holocaust (Poland), a couple issues of No Glam Fags (I think the editor went on to work at Metal Blade), Netherworld (US – Mix of metal and deep into the obscure horror movie scene), Real Sickness (US), Screams From The Gutter (US), The Sepulchral Voice (Canadian zine that I ended up writing for), Eternal Darkness (US), Metal Curse (US), Grinding (Can), Exhumed (US), Growling Brutality (Can), Necropolis (editor started a record label we all know by the same name later on), Cerebral Holocaust (Can) etc… and of course Metal Core! As you can probably figure out I actually became a fan of the fanzines themselves. It was not just the bands interviewed, it was the whole package and you could almost get a connection with the editor who is just like you. I guess part of the reason I started my fanzine was so I could trade like crazy for everyone else’s haha.

MC: Now before you started your fanzine, did you do any writing for any others before yours?

DR: Indeed I did for a few years. I wrote for the following fanzines: The Sepulchral Voice, Growling Brutality, Eternal Darkness, Inner Source (US), Devourment Of Souls (Malaysia) and a couple more. I did some stuff for some fanzines that were never released which was obviously a waste of time in the end. During its final days The Sepulchral Voice was actually available for free (all pro printed with glossy colour covers) Canada wide at HMV and other chain stores. That was getting a little bit mainstream for my liking but I kind of grew up with that zine. I also had a lot of respect for the editor Mike Campbell, who was also one of my tape traders.

MC: What led to you to starting up your own zine and how many issues did you put out? Did you do most or all of the writing for it or did you have a small staff so to speak help you?

DR: I wanted to do my own for a long time. To be honest I not only lacked the funds, but was a little intimidated on whether I could pull it off like I wanted to do. So it was brewing for 3 or 4 years before I built up both confidence to try it and had the disposable income to make it happen. In the meantime as we discussed I wrote for other people’s zines. I did nearly all of the writing myself early on. A great friend of mine Jeffrey Kusbel helped me out for a number of issues and then later on we started a record label together.

MC: How long did it take to put together an issue on average? After starting the zine, did things get easier or harder for you? How many copies did you print up of each issue and did you see your circulation start to go upwards at all?

DR: Well at the beginning I was young, single and had disposable income burning a hole in my pocket. So the first 3 issues came out in a pretty short time frame, at least short when placed in comparison to how long it took for issues later on. I think from the time issue 1 started mailing out to people until I got issue 3 back from the printer was less than a year, like 10 or 11 months. I had the bug at the time and I worked on it every chance I got. Well issue one was photocopied and it is over a decade since then. So it is hard to remember but I think it was something like 250 to 300 copies made. I moved the bulk of those quite quickly which was awesome and amazing to me at the time. Yes then I wanted to try the pro print thing. Looking back I should maybe waited a while for that. But it all worked out fine. Just as I was shopping for printers I noticed a trend at the time and that was all these printers were raising their minimum print runs on zines from 500 up to 1,000 copies. So I took the plunge and did 1,000 copies of issue 2. When I got the boxes upon boxes back from the printer, it was both a great feeling and kind of overwhelming. As I am thinking I am never going to get all of these out the door to people. I was right I never really did completely but I came closer than I would have thought. It took a while but I probably eventually shifted like 700 or 800 copies in one way or the other. This is around the time that Australia for whatever reason became big fans of what I was doing. I probably sold more bulk orders of my issues to Australia than maybe any other country on this globe. I moved more single issue orders through Canada and the US, but yeah Australia was very good to me and Europe too. But Australia fucking rules man, those are some dedicated motherfuckers. I once hung out a bit with Destroyer 666 and every single band member had not only heard of Canadian Assault. But they all owned at least one issue minimum. That was cool to hear, in fact it was one of the members that said are you Dale Roy from Canadian Assault? I was like are fucking kidding me, you know me and my zine?! The circulation from issue 2 onward through issue 8 was always 1,000 copies. Issue 9, the final print issue I went back to my roots and produced each page myself and stapled them together at a 250 copy run I believe it was.

MC: Did you get many promos back in the day and many unsigned bands sending you demos and stuff?

DR: Yes more than I ever thought would send me anything. I started doing the zine nearing the end of the time when labels big and small almost fell all over themselves to get you promos to review. I was kind of overwhelmed by that. A glowing review of issue 1 in Metal Maniacs may have played a part in that I dunno? But the next couple issues were overflowing with promos coming in from demo bands, small labels (Wild Rags, Damnation records, Corpse Gristle, United Guttural, Breath Of Night etc…) right up to all the big boy labels I guess you could call them (Metal Blade, Nuclear Blast, Relapse, Century Media, Osmose, Earache, Rise Above and even some majors send the odd batch etc…).

MC: About how much back in the golden oldie days ha ha were you spending time doing zine related things? Do you feel looking back you were pretty fair and honest with your reviews?

DR: In the old days quite a bit, I was single, young and had few responsibilities. So I would go to my job, then come home and listen to music and work on the zine much of the day and night. I was still kind of tape trading and stuff in the early days so some of my energy was on that and just doing mail and shit. HAHA No I was probably not as fair as I could have been. But I think the fact that I had a bias at times and know what I like is part of what people liked about Canadian Assault. I had a stand and an clear attitude about it which seemed to attract people to the zine. I was not vanilla and just out to get more promos like so many zines back then. I made it pretty obvious if you send me operatic vocals, tons of synth, goth, angelic female vocals type of thing it is going to get ripped with no mercy shown. So no I was not fair at times and ignored the fact that they may be good musicians etc… but I think I was definitely honest. I was like that at live shows at times too and did not hide my displeasure haha. I remember Cazz Grant and I were hanging a bit at his table during a show and I was doing this. Then his band Crucifier played. He came off stage and said to me you did not give me the finger during the set so I take it you liked what you heard Dale?! Haha. I think over the years I have softened my stance a little but still feel the same way in a lot of cases. I am probably at least a little more even handed these days, even if I dislike an album I can still admit to some portion or performance that is well done.

MC: Do you miss the days of getting actual letters and tapes and cds in the mail everyday?

DR: Yeah sometimes I do. I mean I guess we still get the same contacts right? Though it feels less personal and more clinical sometimes does it not? I tell labels that I prefer getting cds so I still get my fair share of cds in the mail and demo bands send discs. Not as many as the old days. I do review some download stuff here and there. I think some of them beyond saving a couple bucks and are just lazy. Like hey no bio or anything just a one sentence Email “can you go to my myspace page and review our two songs?” Ummm… no ya lazy bugger haha.

MC: How did you come up with the name of the zine and were any other names considered?

DR: The name is taken from one of the bands I worship the most through the decades which is Venom. It is taken from their Assault series. Specifically of course their Mini-LP, Canadian only release of Canadian Assault. Actually when I first started working on it the name was going to another Venom song title Die Hard. Then when I was working on issue 1, a certain European label changed their name to Die Hard records. So I went with choice number two Canadian Assault. I thought about Warhead as another Venom song title name but yet another little label started around that time and used that name as well.

MC: I saw recently that your still doing the zine. Now what led to you retiring the print zine and did you go directly onto the internet with the zine or did you take a break and now your back doing the zine?

DR: I could probably go on all day about the effects of the internet, not only on society but certainly DR: also the UG scene. To make a long story short, everyone wants everything right now, and they want get with the absolute least amount of effort possible. I am not excluding myself from this, I might not be as bad as many out there, but I have not been immune to this (though I do not even own a cell phone – I know I am a barbarian living in the dark ages J). Basically everyone wanted their interviews and reviews for free and they want them fast, they do not want to order a fanzine and wait for it to come in the mail. Not everyone just most people. It is most prevalent in North America but the rest of the globe is not only catching up any longer but on par really with us. The Europeans as you could probably predict have tried to hold on to print fanzines longer than we did. But it seems to be thinning out there a great deal and slowly turning into the wasteland it is over here. Towards the end I had to work my butt off just moving, trading etc… a small amount of fanzines. I am not the only one as everyone was complaining about it and North American print zines started dropping like flies and disappearing. Also around this time postal rates started steadily rising (they felt in the internet pinch too) and it was costly just to send a fanzine somewhere. I am sure it seemed at times like I might have stopped doing Canadian Assault after the last print issue (#9). I never did but the time I could devote to it and some procrastination on my part conspired to things moving very slowly for quite a while. The last 8 or 10 months I have been working much more steadily on CA and updating it regularly. It seems like the word is getting around better and I get more promos, people writing about it, old friends getting back in touch and just general feedback. So that is good, it sort of fuels me towards keeping it up going forward. It pales in comparison to Metal Core, but Canadian Assault has been alive and kicking, closing in on 15 years now.

MC: What do you think of some of the best and worst things about the underground nowadays?

DR: It is a hard question. As much as old goats like me and you miss the old days. I am sure we both utilize and enjoy certain aspects like the internet, Email etc… to our advantage. Maybe I am just getting old or too old school. But the camaraderie and brotherhood and feeling you are part of this thing together seems like it is largely lost. The scene to me feels a little less close knit, a little less of the old spirit of wanting to help each other succeed whether it is a zine, a band or whatever. Now it is more of what can you do for me instead of how can I help you out brother… I love that there are so many labels and bands these days but it feels like they are pulling in different directions and it is so hard to keep track of it all and so easy to get lost in the shuffle. At the same time the internet and technology has made it easier for some smaller or unknown bands, labels etc… from countries like Peru or Singapore or Brazil get their stuff out there to more die hard metalheads. I am moving with the times but sometimes I feel like I am a little left behind the times too if you know what I mean. My head is in the now, but my heart is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s at times.

MC: Do you feel there is way too many bands nowadays and not enough good ones and that the good ones get lost in the shuffle at times?

DR: Yes I really do. I do not want to put down anyone wanting to do a little label (hell I did it too) or a band these days. But unlike the old days you had really work at it, you had to put more money into recording and booking real studios and the like. It was more of a commitment and took more dedication. It seemed like once you had the proliferation of pro tools and computer recording and mixing equipment and burning cdr’s. That anyone could cobble together a band and a recording without a whole lot of effort, time, thought or funds involved. There are just so many bands and so many little labels releasing those bands that it is impossible sometimes to sort through the so-so or shitty bands to find the ones that are worthwhile. It was easier to come across quality in the past and easier to keep track of who is out there doing what. For example my old tape trader from Quebec got some cheap stuff together, made keyboard albums and made a few albums in like a month. It was total garbage and I told him I thought that and he appreciated the honesty as he knew I was always like that. It was poorly thought out, boring, unchanging and performed with fuck ups in the recording etc… But some Europeans labels released those albums. I could not believe it and it all happened in no time flat from the time he got the idea, recorded it and the albums were released.

MC: If you had the power to sign any 5 bands to a label you owned, what would those bands be and why?

DR: Wow I have no idea these days. I assume you mean unsigned demo bands that are out there right now or you mean just any band I liked whether they are currently signed or not? To be honest with everything being right now recorded on pro tools and all sounding the same and plastic at times. I would probably be tempted to go out and sign some raunchy punk tinged metal crossover band or something like Adrencide from the UK or some old school analog recording type black metal band. Just to be rebellious to that new stuff and keep the old spirit going. Pretty sad nothing is coming to mind and I actually do have a label I work on with Jeffrey Kusbel named Autopsy Kitchen Records.

MC: Do you see in a few years the demise of CDS and everything going digital?

DR: Yes I do. I think back and chuckle at the fact that when CDs came along. I was like fuck that shit, I am sticking with my cassette tapes and vinyls and screw CDs. I refuse to buy them! But times change and you slowly change with them or are left in the dust. I can not deny myself how cool it is to burn my CDs into mp3 and transfer them to my mp3 player. I mean in the 80s could we even fathom having 100 albums out of our collection in our pocket ready to listen anytime, anywhere in a couple quick clicks? Crazy times we live in brother. I do see CDs going the way of the dinosaur. I think it will take a while though. I do not expect to see them die out quite as fast as cassettes or video tapes did. But the demise is coming.

MC: What do you think of sites like Facebook and My Space?

DR: They are okay for those that like to use them. I kind of like myspace, just from the standpoint that it is often a good way to hear a few songs from bands to get an idea if you want to investigate further and buy their album or demo. My wife is pretty into Facebook. I actually signed up an account way before it got so popular. Like back in 2005 and then promptly forgot all about it. Then someone searched me and Emailed me if that blank account with my name was really my account haha. So I updated it. But I really only use it when someone usually into the UG scene contacts me through facebook. Which goes right to my Email otherwise I might never bother with it most of the time. I can not be bothered with people that update what they and their kids or whatever are doing every half an hour. I am watching the Amazing Race, little Davey is playing a video game, little Sally is sniffling and might have a cold, the hubby eating in the kitchen. See you again in twenty minutes and I will let you know if Sally’s cold is progressing into the flu by then… Shut the hell up and welcome to my non-friend list HAHA.

MC: Have you seen any good shows in the past few years and do you have a favorite all time show you saw ?

DR: Basically none I am afraid. I am out in the sticks now and there are no shows anywhere around here that I am aware of. I mean a couple years back I traveled to Allentown PA (a little over an hours drive) to see a small metalfest being put on there. It was mostly heavy metal and doom metal bands. That was good and I enjoyed that for sure. Trouble kicked my ass hard at that one. When I lived in Philly and hung out with the Bloodstorm and Metalwar Productions guys. I used to go to shows quite often which was great. I went out with Bloodstorm back then on a mini-tour through New Jersey and NYC. That was awesome. The Black Witchery drummer was with us as live drummer for Bloodstorm. The other bands on the tour were Sadistic Intent, Destroyer 666, Nunslaughter and Krieg , Profanatica were on one of the shows as well. The D666 and Nunslaughter guys are great to hang with and I am a die hard Nunslaughter fan as well. So that was something to remember and getting to see them every night over and over again blew my mind. Besides that back in Canada any time I got to see the legends Disciples of Power was always a milestone. The last show I got to see in Canada before moving was Cannibal Corpse, Angelcorpse and my friends band Lust. A good time for sure. Another show that was special for me because I am such a huge fan was seeing Wino live at the last ever Spirit Caravan show. My buddy is friends with Wino so I even got to hang out with him a little as well. I was like a little kid in awe as he sat and told me St. Vitus tour stories and shit.

MC: Do you think the underground can ever recapture the magic it once had?

DR: I honestly do not think so. Possibly some small areas or pockets of the scene that see each other all the time and hang out. I think far too much has changed the landscape of everything to go back to the way it was. It really was one of those magic times that will never be duplicated. Then again we are old coots Chris, maybe we are just waxing all nostalgic over here with our rose coloured glasses on? Maybe we are out of touch or something? If that is the case I am okay with that. I have the amazing memories and that old school spirit locked inside of me.

MC: Give the names of some bands newer fans of this styler of music should go and check out?

DR: Some bands newer fans should check out (generally start with their early stuff and work from there): Venom, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Slayer, Infernal Majesty, Razor, Exodus, Savatage, Grim Reaper, Kreator, Sodom, Hell Hammer, Destruction, Dismember, Darkthrone, Immolation, Benediction, Bolt Thrower, Mayhem, Autopsy, Repulsion etc… The list is almost endless. But if you have not heard any of those bands. Then do yourself a favor and the correct that mistake.

MC: Did any bands write you a nasty letter or threaten you back in the day due to a bad review?

DR: HAHA. Yes that happened a few times actually. I remember one guy from a band down in I think Colorado freaked over a bad review (I hold nothing back if I really hate something) and threatened he could track me down and find out where I live from Email. I said you guys mailed your disc to my street address so I am easy to find so no need to track me down. But I never heard from them again. I think it was some metalcore type band with the rapping hip hop influenced growling vocals and they dressed like rappers. Also the funniest thing might have been the guy from small US record label got pissed off at me. I traded my zine to King Fowley of Deceased who is friends with the guy. Apparently King mentioned to him that a review in Canadian Assault said his label had poor distribution in Europe. Nothing even nasty, that was all it said. So the guy writes me and acted like he wanted to beat me up. I said I think it was in reference to your releases not being in stores over there. He was like you think? I said yeah I did not write that, my friend Arto from Finland wrote that, so I will take his word for it. I honestly just kind of laughed it off and again said well here is my address. It seemed so ridiculous to me that just due to someone’s opinion on his distribution in a review he wanted to beat the person up that wrote it?

MC: What are some hobbies and things you like to do with yourself?

DR: That sounds like a leading question “things you like to do with yourself”? Like slapping the Pope? Yes that is a hobby of mine haha. Actually I usually do not write this stuff in metal related things since most metalheads I know hate sports and it turns them off hearing about it. But I am a huge hockey fan, almost obsessive about hockey in general and in particular my team the Edmonton Oilers. Besides that I am also a huge devotee of MMA. My friend got me into it when I still lived in Canada with these bootleg video cassettes of the UFC and overseas stuff back in 1994. I have been hooked ever since and can not get enough of it. Now that it has gone mainstream you can watch it on tv all the time which is awesome. Besides that not much just listening to music, hanging with the family mostly. I am not the most social person. The only time I really like being in crowds of people is at metal shows.

MC: Dale, horns up for doing this. Hope to bump into you again someday soon. Any last words.

DR: This interview is much appreciated and an honour to appear in Metal Core once again. I actually managed to locate my word file with our original interview; it was back in early in the year 2000. It has been a little over a decade in between. Which of course means we are old men in this scene Chris. I am proud of us both for keep the old flame burning. Yes I hope we do run into each other once again. It good hanging with you in Philly and also we hung out a bit at a Milwaukee Metalfest back in ’98 and a couple NJ Metalfests. It has been too long my metal brother. Also I know I have said this and told you this in the past. But your interviewing style in Metal Core was a big influence on me. I remember this one issue you had an interview with Metal Merchant records. I remember thinking what a great interview and that is what I want my interviews to be like. All the best and I hope we see each other again soon. Cheers.
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